An Interview with Fr. Marek Blaza

Fr. Marek Blaza comes from Upper Silesia in southern Poland. He entered the Society of Jesus [Jesuits] in 1989, having first encountered the religious order watching the American television series Shōgun as a boy: “I saw that the Jesuits were so smart and cunning, and I thought, ‘I could be like that!’” 

While studying philosophy in the southern Polish city of Kraków in the early 1990s, participation in an Orthodox choir awakened Fr. Marek’s interest in Eastern Christianity. On being ordained a deacon in 1999, he was granted permission to serve the Eastern or Greek Catholic Rite—for which he typically uses the Ukrainian language— in addition to the more usual Roman Catholic Rite using Polish. 

Now residing at the Jesuit complex in Warsaw centered upon St. Andrzej Boboli Church, Fr. Marek also lectures on the theology of ecumenism and sacramentology. In late August the editor of the East-West Church Report spoke to him about his experience serving the Ukrainian community in Poland, especially those fleeing the current war in their homeland. The interview took place in English.

How many Roman Catholic priests in Poland are able to serve the Eastern Rite, like you? 

There are just the two of us. There is also a monk from the Augustinian Order, Fr. Simon Jankowski, who is a parish priest in [the southern city of] Katowice. But he is a Kashub, as I am a Silesian [minority ethnic groups in Poland], so we are not really pure Polish. 

How many Greek Catholic communities are there in Warsaw? 

Four so far, and very close to Warsaw there are another four. We are not currently able to establish new parishes because we do not have enough priests. Priests can no longer move here from Ukraine, as their government does not grant permission. [Editor’s note: Since the Ukrainian authorities declared martial law on 24 February, male citizens aged 18-60 are generally not permitted to leave the country.] 

How has the composition of the Greek Catholic community here changed in recent years?

The first wave of migration was mostly Ukrainians looking to find employment. They were often retired people whose pension was too small to live on, so they came here to work. It was a blessing from God that we had this first wave, because the Polish people are already used to hearing Ukrainian or Russian being spoken here, and those Ukrainians who have already been here for a few years are now helping this second wave that has come since 24 February. As you can imagine, those refugees did not want to come to Poland. They are not like the first wave, people who knew what it means to emigrate. There are also Poles living in England who made the conscious decision to move, knowing that they would have to learn the language, and so on. But these people do not speak Polish, or even read the Polish alphabet. Even if they know the Latin alphabet because they studied English, the pronunciation is completely different. We also have important diacritical signs that almost do not exist in English, except perhaps in French loanwords like fiancée. For these people, it is very difficult to stay here—that is why some have already gone back. 

Are Greek Catholics among those fleeing Russian occupation, or are they usually Orthodox? 

There are Greek Catholics, of course, but they are mostly Orthodox. Even before 24 February we had a lot of Orthodox people in our parishes. Why? Because, as one Orthodox woman said to me: “I like your church very much. You sing everything precisely as it is sung in my village, and the sermon is in Ukrainian. It doesn’t matter whether your employer is the Pope of Rome or the Patriarch. Did I ever see the Pope or the Patriarch? Never, ever. But you, Father—I can see YOU.” [Laughs.] 

Our bishops have said officially that there is no problem for them to participate in the sacraments—communion, confession, anointing the sick, even the blessing of marriages. So we do not differentiate whether you are Greek Catholic or Orthodox.  

Do people like the woman you just mentioned think of themselves as Orthodox under either Metropolitan Onufry [head of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, which maintained ties to the Moscow Patriarchate until May 2022] or Metropolitan Epifany [head of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, maintaining ties with the Patriarchate of Constantinople since January 2019]? Do they care?

No. If that is a problem, they do not know about it. [Laughs] Some of them do know, but now—here in Poland— it doesn’t matter, because these churches exist only in Ukraine. Here, you have only the Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church, and they do not go there because the sermons are usually in Russian, or a mixture of Russian and Polish. The services are usually in Church Slavonic, with Russian pronunciation. But these people want to understand the service, and they cannot understand the Church Slavonic— only some words. I also celebrate the Liturgy in Church Slavonic sometimes, but for people who know the language. And so they come to the Greek Catholic churches, because everything is in Ukrainian. For them, this is their sanctuary, a place where they can feel as if they are at home. We try to do that for these people. Of course, sometimes they come to us saying, “Father, I am Orthodox. May I go to confession?” Of course, go ahead. And then they might say, “If I were in Ukraine, I would never, ever go to a Greek Catholic church!” [Laughs].

 They have a very different attitude towards the Greek Catholic Church there? 

Yes, because over there it is a matter of their identity: “I’m Orthodox.” Over here, they are more Ukrainian than Orthodox. 

Have you had to support Ukrainian refugees who have suffered traumatic experiences as a result of the war? 

Yes. As far as offering pastoral care is concerned— confessions and counselling—you have to remember that some refugees hate the Russians. They are aware that this [attitude] is not fair, a sin. They try not to hate them, but it is very difficult, this forgiveness. Oh, there will be a reconciliation process for many, many years! There are also mothers, wives, and sisters of Ukrainian soldiers, some of whom have been killed. We have to console these women, to explain this somehow. It is very important to listen to them and not to speak too much. Seminary did not prepare us for this—we had to do that ourselves. But I do not blame the seminary, because we lived in peacetime. No one prepared us for a time of war. 

What have you learned due to your interaction with those who have experienced the trauma of this war? 

Not to use the Russian language! To be careful about jokes referring to Ukrainians and Russians—some of these topics are not recommended now. I can also understand now that I have great power as a priest. If, for example, I were to say during a sermon “Let’s go for the Russians, let’s kill them!” then people would go. I feel personal responsibility for every word of my teaching. There are priests who would say, “The Russians—those Muscovites—they are cruel, inhuman,” and so on. I try not to speak like that. For example, I do not say a prayer for the Russians to come back to God, because the point is not that the Russians as a nation are godless. There are Russians who are against this war. There are also Ukrainians who are traitors. It is not as if the Russians are bad, and the Ukrainians are holy—it doesn’t work like that. I try to explain this. 

However, when I give sermons I do not speak too much about the war. The people know; they have the Internet! They can read! [Laughs.] They are not so stupid that we have to explain to them what has happened. And they come for something different, not for me to tell them something about the war. 

“We are trying to show love, because our Ukrainian brethren now need our help”

An Interview with Fr. Doroteusz Sawicki

Poland has its own Orthodox Church, whose autocephaly—or independence— was acknowledged by the Patriarchate of Constantinople in 1924 and by the Patriarchate of Moscow in 1948. It currently has approximately 500 parish communities across the country, as well as 10 monasteries, a theological academy, and a seminary. A native Pole, Fr. Doroteusz Sawicki is auxiliary priest at the Church’s Metropolitan Cathedral of St. Mary Magdalene in Warsaw. He also teaches history at the Christian Theological Academy in the Polish capital, and is director of the Polish Orthodox Church’s charitable foundation, Eleos [Greek: mercy, compassion]. In late August the editor of the East-West Church Report met Fr. Doroteusz at his Cathedral’s offices to learn more about Polish Orthodox efforts to support refugees fleeing the war in Ukraine, many of whom are Orthodox. The original conversation took place in Russian.

When was Eleos, your charitable foundation, founded? 

It was set up in 1996 to help people within Poland, for example through our Christmas Candle initiative. Every year we prepare candles that are sold during the Christmas period, and the proceeds from their sale go to help children in need. We have had some aid initiatives with an international aspect, such as after the 2019 earthquake in Albania, and during the 2021 crisis when many migrants from Syria and Africa came to Poland via Belarus. 

This spring, did the Polish Orthodox Church experience a sudden, large influx of Ukrainian refugees seeking assistance? 

Initially, we did not believe that it was really war. We hoped that hostilities would end after a few days, and that some kind of peaceful negotiations would start. So first of all we prayed. The war began on a Thursday, and special prayers

were said in all Polish Orthodox churches that Sunday, for peace in Ukraine and for people to return home alive—these prayers are still being offered to this day.

The movement of people you are talking about appeared in Poland after a few days. We had to gather donations quickly, because they had typically fled taking very little with them. So we gathered clothes, food, hygiene and cleaning products from individuals and businesses, and wherever possible we organized places for people to stay. Our Orthodox schools, monasteries, and parishes gave up premises for this. Then, when it became clear that the conflict would not be over quickly, we also began organizing services to help people find accommodations, work, and legal information about their rights in Poland. 

Our foundation, Eleos, also started more long-term projects in two areas: one to help displaced people within Ukraine, the second to provide everything the refugees needed in Poland. To date, we have sent 35 consignments of donations into Ukraine, each containing two or three [metric] tonnes of items such as food, clothes, hygiene products, and medicine, as well as other equipment like hospital beds and wheelchairs. Just yesterday we sent a consignment to the Kamianets-Podilskyi region [in western Ukraine]. Each consignment costs around $7,000-$8,000. Within Poland, we have sent around 30 similar consignments to places where large concentrations of Ukrainians are staying, such as old people’s homes. 

The refugees also needed to learn Polish, so we organized classes for groups of 20-30 people. We paid for the necessary teachers and equipment, such as textbooks, so that they could learn Polish free of charge. There have been around 15 such courses to date.

In all of this it became clear also that history remains with people—we have not forgotten the very painful events of the 1940s concerning the Polish and Ukrainian populations in Volhynia. We understood that we could return to that, and that we needed to work on integrating Poles and Ukrainians— to find what unites us. [Editor’s note: In 1943-5 Ukrainian insurgents massacred tens of thousands of Polish civilians in eastern parts of then-Poland under Nazi occupation, including Volhynia province, which is now part of Ukraine.] A children’s event for Ukrainian refugees organized by Eleos (Source: D. SAWICKI) 

How have you approached this task? 

Through cultural activities, with Polish culture in Ukraine and Ukrainian culture in Poland as the main theme. We formed around 25 clubs in parishes as well as other locations, where we paid for renovations and some equipment. Other people prepared the program: meetings, choirs, art… any kind of activity that facilitated conversation. Meals were also required, so Eleos began helping to set up canteen-style kitchens where Ukrainians taught Ukrainian cuisine to Poles, and Poles taught Polish cuisine to Ukrainians. They then distributed the food they had made. We created spaces where people could talk and work, and playgrounds for children. Besides Polish language lessons, we also started computer courses for young people. When they meet and chat together about modern topics, the past is forgotten. 

We see the misfortune of the Ukrainian people. This is a tragedy for them—bloodshed, burying loved ones—and as far as we are able, we are trying to alleviate their suffering. In all of this we try to forget those sad times in our common history, when there were similar events between Poles and Ukrainians. While not losing sight of that history, in everyday life we are trying to show love, because our Ukrainian brethren now need our help, just as—God forbid—we might need help from someone else in a similar situation. 

How did you raise the funds to do all of this? 

We have had different sources of funding, including 

Did the resources of the Polish Orthodox Church form the largest part? 

No, we only have around 500,000 people! To date all these activities have cost around two million Polish złoty… more than that, even—between $600,000 and $700,000. A huge amount of that sum was given by the Orthodox Church in America [OCA]. They found out what we were doing: First of all individual parishes and people who had family roots in Poland or Ukraine. Then the OCA as a whole asked if they could collect donations and send this money to us. This gave us the means to increase the scale of our work—to hire assistants, to forge links with particular organizations and foundations in Ukraine, to transfer aid. 

There have also been other foundations: also in America, the IOCC [International Orthodox Christian Charities], and Filantropia in Finland [an agency of the Orthodox Church of Finland]. The Finnish Lutheran Church is also helping us, and individual Orthodox parishes in Western Europe contacted us and sent aid. So using our hands, other people took action—without their support, we would not have been able to do this work. Local people also made donations, of course, but only around a fifth of the total. 

On breaking ties with Moscow in May, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church led by Metropolitan Onufry announced that it would open parishes outside Ukraine in order to support Ukrainian refugees. Are there such plans in Poland, or do Ukrainian Orthodox come under the existing structures of the Polish Orthodox Church? 

They come under our existing structures. The structures of the Polish Orthodox Church are almost everywhere in our country and, if necessary, we will create new ones. But just as we have never permitted another Orthodox Church to create structures on our territory, we will not do so in the future. If we did, others would demand the same, and we would be drawn into disputes that we do not need. 

Whenever the Church in Ukraine unites, we will be able to return to this topic. While they are divided, we support the structure that existed prior to all these disputes, because we understand that—just as it took us many years to receive autocephaly, it will also take others a long time.

So currently you maintain contact only with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Metropolitan Onufry, not the Orthodox Church of Ukraine under Constantinople? If we are speaking about general ecclesiastical affairs, then yes. If we are talking about charitable activity, then we do not ask who is who, only who is in need. We do not take into consideration a person’s religious affiliation.